Second Chances and the Right to Dream with Freda Ceasar
Cultural transformations where everyone belongs are fundamental to how change works. That is precisely what LaFreda Ceasar is here for, how to challenge the systems that we exist within and the inequities that are in our day-to-day lives.
There is much to change. To begin, we need to better care for one another. In this episode, LaFreda shares her incredible personal experience as well as her outstanding work with New Narrative. This episode is not to be missed, especially for those hoping to better understand how to approach one another more curiously, compassionately, and with understanding.
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Our Host
Ari O’Donovan
Transcript:
Ari O'Donovan: (00:00)
Hi everyone, Ari here. Before the episode starts, I wanna say thank you for listening and invite you to boost Oregon's annual fundraiser. It'll be on November 4th in downtown Portland, Oregon, and there's gonna be drinks, food, live music. It's gonna be a ton of fun. Boost Oregon wants to give fans of the show half price tickets. If you wanna take advantage of that discount, be sure to click the top link in the description and select partner admission. By the way, the second link will also have the event details. So if you're around the great Pacific Northwest, we hope to see you on November 4th, and of course, enjoy this episode. Are y'all comfortable? We hope wherever you're listening to this, you're comfortable. This show is for the Bipo communities in Oregon, hosted by a black woman about the amazing work we do every day in this state. So let's build together, connect with our communities, add some laughter and humor even when it's a difficult conversation. Let's boost our voices.
Freda Ceasar : (01:05)
We acknowledge the significant disparities that Bipoc and L g BT Q I A to SS plus individual space within the mental health continuum. Underserved communities often encounter explicit and implicit bias while BiPAP individuals experience racism and injustice within the mental health system.
Ari O'Donovan: (01:26)
Welcome back y'all, to boosting our voices. As always, I'm your host I Ira o' Donovan, and I am also Boost Oregon's Diversity Program Director. Today we have a really amazing guest who's here to talk about an amazing organization along with herself, Frida Caesar, can you introduce yourself? Tell us what you do and a little bit more about you.
Freda Ceasar : (01:50)
Hi everyone. Hi Ira. Happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Frida Caesar. I am the VP of Equity Culture and Talent with New Narrative. I have been doing this work for 20 odd years, and yeah, I'm happy to be here and happy and excited to share more about me and the work that I do.
Ari O'Donovan: (02:12)
I wanna talk more about that , that's such a long time girl to be doing the amazing work that you do.
Freda Ceasar : (02:19)
. Yes, definitely a long time.
Ari O'Donovan: (02:23)
I would like to start with a quote by author NK Jemison, who once said, we all have futures. We all have pasts, we all have stories, and we all, every single one of us, no matter who we are, and no matter what's been taken from us or what poison we've internalized or how hard we've had to work to expel it, we all get to dream. You have been a maker of dreams for 20 plus years. Frida, what are some of the moments from the past 20 years of your work that will help our audience understand you and your work? Yeah,
Freda Ceasar : (02:59)
Yeah, that's a very good question. And there are several key moments from my past 20 years of work that I believe will help others understand me and my career. Um, but first, you know, I would love to start with present day. So I currently hold the position of VP of Equity, culture and Talent at New Narrative. And in this role I work to support the agency's strategic goals, which include becoming a destination, workplace, driving cultural transformation, promoting racial equity within the fabric of employee culture and participant experience. So that is a lot of heady stuff, , but in a nutshell, I think it's really about like, let's attract talent, right? Let's attract talent to come to work for us. We wanna make sure they are thriving, we wanna make sure that they are developing and that they're happy to be here. And we want to create a cultural transformation where everyone feels like they belong.
Freda Ceasar : (03:58)
Right? That's a lot of work. So underneath all that, you know, kind of heavy stuff, I would say that that's some of the key points that I would love for people to know. But before joining new Narrative, I held the position of chief equity and organizational development officer at a local nonprofit. I served on the executive leadership team. I let the agency's equity and organizational development strategy, a lot of, again, heady words, but I did this through the challenges of the pandemic, right? And during social unrest, it was a difficult role that really pushed me beyond my limits. Like, believe me, providing support for bipo and non bipo staff members who are also facing the St. STR struggles. You know, kind really not understanding what's happening. And living and breathing in my brown skin was like an out-of-body experience. It was a unique and challenging experience.
Freda Ceasar : (04:58)
Despite my social work education, nothing could have prepared me for this. Shout out to P S U for that amazing program. And these are the things that you don't know what you're gonna face. You have the foundation, but this is stuff they don't talk about, right? However, our staff members, they needed us. They needed us to hold space for their pain, for their confusion and frustration. And so we had to persevere. I held various positions in this organization. And during my graduate program, I developed a culturally specific reentry program for African American men and women working in collaborations, collaboration with the Department of Community Justice, department of Corrections, and other important stakeholders. We analyzed data and found that individuals who left the reentry housing portfolio with permanent housing and employment, the recidivism rates were literally cut in half. So that's a little bit about, you know, kind of my work and what I've done.
Freda Ceasar : (05:57)
But as I think about your opening quote to this conversation, in my mind's eye, I'm reminded of how much my life has changed compared to today and where I've been. And to give the audience some more additional context, I used to be in prison for almost six years. I was incarcerated under the care of the state of Oregon. I bounced around in Oregon to New Mexico, back to Oregon in various cities. And when I was incarcerated, I worked on the work crew. I mowed the lawn, I worked in the kitchen and laundry room. I saw my loved ones through plexiglass, I learned that my father passed away while in prison. I held my niece for the first time in a visiting room. And quite frankly, I have no clue, you know, who I would become and what I would do with my life. But similar to that quote, I chose not to allow what was taken from me or the poison from my environment to get internalized. And I knew I had to push towards something powerful, something bigger than me. And I knew that there was more that I could do. So that's a little bit about the moments that have really impacted my work and why I do what I do.
Ari O'Donovan: (07:16)
2020 and all the social justice problems that we were exhibiting in this country, black people were seeing not, it wasn't the first time, but another time. And this time on a way more national, and even global scale was amazing in a really terrible way. And it was daunting how to navigate that, especially if you work in a white dominated place. So the fact that you are holding space for people to be able to talk about things, express himself, feel comfortable, that is really important. And everything that was going on with the pandemic, just by itself, it was just a cocktail of crazy facts.
Freda Ceasar : (07:57)
,
Ari O'Donovan: (07:59)
It really, really was.
Freda Ceasar : (08:01)
Think about that. And I am like barely holding it together, right? And being a helper to the helpers, right? The people that are taking care of the people, helping them and kind of feeling empty, you know, at the same time, right? And again, it was very much like an out-of-body experience, and I wouldn't trade it, right? Like I, I still would not trade it. I would not ever give up the opportunity to help someone in that space, but it definitely stretched me beyond what I, what I ever knew. So
Ari O'Donovan: (08:38)
You learn so much. I can tell that when I first had an introductory meeting with you, I could tell that. And now people get to listen to that and hear that on this podcast. And that's really special to me. And I know it's special to you. Yeah.
Freda Ceasar : (08:52)
And shout out to people who are doing this work, who have gone through that shout out to y'all. We see y'all, we adore y'all. Keep pushing through. So shout them out.
Ari O'Donovan: (09:02)
And another thing that I wanna talk about that you mentioned is that you've been incarcerated for six years. First of all, to make it through that mm-hmm. , without doing anything else, without quote unquote accomplishing things through the upper limits, you by yourself have value. Mm-hmm. , you by yourself are an amazing fighter of a person to get through something like that and not have all this hate and resentment to the point where it's just mm-hmm. It's changed you and you can't function like you used to anymore. Mm-hmm. That by itself. Mm-hmm. Even without your m s w, even without the fabulous title that you have at New Narrative, without all that. Mm-hmm. be proud of that. Be proud of that. Because I feel some kind of way about that. Mm-hmm. feel some kind of way. , I'm very, very vocal about that. We put so much emphasis on you only have value if you have a master's degree or if you have a PhD. What about the lived experience though, and the disenfranchisement?
Freda Ceasar : (10:08)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And there are things, I believe that there's something inherent about struggle. You know, and there's something inherent about going through life when it's not at the greatest moments. And, and moving through that, right? And still keeping your heart, keeping your spirit, keeping your mental health, all that intact. There's such a resiliency, um, that a person has. And not only that, when they can give of themselves and reach back and give back and teach others that, Hey, this isn't it for you. You know, you've had these challenges and these struggles, but you can press forward. I've done it. And that lived experience is what is really most impactful. You know, when I got out of prison where I landed and, and started working, there was a woman behind the desk that I was incarcerated with. And in my mind I'm like, okay, I need to find a job.
Freda Ceasar : (11:11)
Clearly this woman has found one, she's sitting right here in front of me. And it was that lived experience that I felt deeply connected to. She could have had all the degrees in the world, but I'm looking at someone who has been through what I've been through, and she can get through to me, she can show me that, you know, life doesn't have to be, you know, doom and gloom. She's making it. And I think that you're right, that has value, has so much value, and we need to uplift that. So I, I really appreciate you double clicking on that and
Ari O'Donovan: (11:48)
Your experience being incarcerated and exiting incarceration, finding a job, finding meaning in what you do, and being able to help other people. 'cause they need that. They need to be able to see the example. You saw the example and it gave you strength. And you do that every day with what you do for work. And then to be able to get an M s W. So it's like you have that experience that has given you an insight that a lot of people never will have. And for a lot of people, it's to their detriment because it would've shaped them into a better human beings if they can know that experience, or at least be open to listening to someone else describe it to them. But on top of that, you also have a master's degree. So yes, you get your flowers from me on this show, girl for sure.
Ari O'Donovan: (12:42)
And I love that. And it, we have a lot to talk about on this podcast episode, but I do wanna say just goes into the fact that if you invest in people, like someone did something, they ended up incarcerated for it. The criminal justice system has many, many, many flaws. That's a whole nother episode, , that's many flaws. You made it through that you served your time based on what the judicial system says you're supposed to do, and then you exited. If you treat people with decency and respect and treat them like they have the same value as anyone else that hasn't lived that experience, they will do fine out here in this world. You mentioned that people who are exiting, being incarcerated, but you provide them with housing, the recidivism rate drops by half. That's just one way to allow people access to something that other people don't have to fight so hard for.
Freda Ceasar : (13:48)
Yes. It was tough. It was tough. And you know, I got out, you can look at it a whole bunch of different ways, but me serving six years kind of helped in my favor because most background checks are gonna look for at least seven years, you know, post your conviction to even consider you. Right? And there were, I had that working against me. And there were plenty of nice employers who were, you know, wow, we we're, sorry, we really wish we could hire you, but our hiring practices is this. Right? And same thing with finding a place to stay. A lot of, um, landlords, you know, they're looking at your background check and if it doesn't meet a certain timeframe, then they're not able to rent to you. And so the very two things that are going to cut recidivism rate in half because of the conviction and the timeframe and the hiring practices.
Freda Ceasar : (14:50)
And the rental practices, there's a mismatch. I mean, it's, it's policy. It's it's systems that are working against people, literally working against them. And so I think that's, those are, those are pieces of the puzzle. Like when you start to talk about equity work, when you start to talk about, you know, how are we setting people up for success? We need to look at our systems. We need to look at, are they really set up to really help people? I don't think so. So you have a person who's pretty astute, you know, has some family support and still, and just imagine, you know, for those people who don't have that, it's even worse. And I have to tell you, I was really sad, you know, for lack of a better word, just going out there, busting my behind every single day. And that, that, uh, that hope, you know, you know, I'm out. I got this, I got this. That hope, that Hope Bank just starts to get on empty after a while because you're just getting told no over and over and over again. And so I think your point, you know the point that you're making around people, if we have systems that support them, um, they're able to get back on their feet faster. They're able to contribute to society, pay their taxes, you know, pay their rent, you know, get their life back together. But it's the systems that are not in agreement.
Ari O'Donovan: (16:21)
We really do. And it is, it's, that is a bigger picture. And we really do need to change the systems that are literally built to disenfranchise people. That society, the judicial system has decided don't have as much value as the common person walking around. Somebody who's been incarcerated for six years, 10 years, 15, they get out, they serve their time. They're trying to get a place to live, they're trying to get a job. They're a good hard worker. They're smart, they're gonna be a good tenant. None of that matters in so many cases. It's like automatic null. You seem like a nice person. Mm-hmm. . But it's gonna be a no from us.
Freda Ceasar : (17:05)
We have to do our own internal work. But there's a saying like being hard on processes and systems and not on people, but like, we have to challenge these systems. 'cause the systems are also impacting who we are. We're all operating off of these rules. And that's how the bias is. That's how the inequities, you know, we get conditioned and then we play out in our behaviors and in our perspectives and our views by what's in law. You know? That's why we have people that are looking down on people on the corner who's in a tent, who's, you know, X, Y, and Z, but that's somebody's mama. That's somebody's daughter. Yeah. We don't know how they landed, you know, where they landed. And a lot of times it's mental health associated with those things. People aren't just, don't wake up and they're using, I didn't wake up and say, okay, I'm going to jail today.
Freda Ceasar : (18:02)
I, that, that was not my plan at two 30. I'm going to jail. No , I did not wake up with that plan, but I had some issues, you know, dare I say, I had some issues, mental health issues, right. That I was going through. I didn't have anyone to bounce it off of. I didn't have a, a processing mechanism. And so that came out in these behaviors, these criminal behaviors. That's how it came out. But people are people and, and they are human. They're having a human experience. And we need to get curious about that. We need to care about that. That's something that people just don't care about. Some of us don't care about it, but
Ari O'Donovan: (18:44)
Yeah. Yeah. Not everybody, but enough, enough people out there to notice and be like, this is, um, this is a massive societal problem and we are not gonna get any better until most of these people change their ways. And that's the heavy lift. That's the heavy lift of it. It's real easy to say, oh, we value everybody, everybody has humanity. We're here to focus on everyone's needs and see people for who they are and meet people for where they are and, and help everybody. But are you doing it though? Like, is it being done at every level, not just the easy stuff, but the heavy lift that's going to make a difference on a legal level? Like, are we doing that though?
Freda Ceasar : (19:33)
Facts. Those are what I call receipts. , you know, gimme a receipt. I need receipts because the data, you know, the statistics show that we're not, so we have to change, we have to change the outcomes to really show our receipts for who we're prioritizing and why.
Ari O'Donovan: (19:54)
I like that. I really like that when I , whenever I talk to somebody from now on, I'll be like, I got a friend named Frida and she call that a receipt. What are we doing with that ? I love that. Yeah. And you're doing that work. We all can do that work. It has to be done at different levels. But you are doing that work with everything that you do, uh, with your title at New Narrative and everything you've been doing prior to that. But before we go any deeper with new narrative, I'd love to learn more, and I wanna dive deeper into your work and talk about your time at Flip The Script where your programming was made for us by us, which is the best way to do anything really in the equity work you were doing. Talk to us about how y'all flip the script went about implementing that ideology.
Freda Ceasar : (20:54)
So, um, when creating Flip the Script, uh, I knew we had to center equity, you know, as we've been talking about, everyone is having a different experience. And I think for me, it was this pivotal moment that started my love for equity work, just in general. And as my career progressed, I began to prioritize equity because we have to acknowledge how different populations, identities, and abilities shape our perspective and our experiences, um, in the world in general. And as nonprofits, we have the accountability, the obligation, the responsibility, all the things we have, we have to do that. We must do that. So our primary focus for Flip the script was housing and employment as a critical factor, right? For participant success. And the equity, the kind of, I guess double click of equity in this work was aimed at allowing participants to challenge and dare I say, potentially change the current system for reentry services.
Freda Ceasar : (21:58)
So to achieve this, we added an advocacy component to the program, which really encompasses the, for us, by US approach. And in the advocacy realm, the participants met with the advocacy coordinator, they met with the policy specialist at the then organization and, and it's still going on. So I, I won't say then it's still thriving. Look up, flip the script, they're amazing. Shout out to Billy Anfield over there. But their work is really to challenge the system itself and how the system is impacting them. What are the successful experiences that they are having and what are the not so successful experiences they are having? So an example of that is the reentry process itself. So how participants get referred into Flip the script was a big piece of it. So the participants conducted or participated in a survey where we asked them for their experience, you know, what about the handoff between your reentry counselor or correctional counselor at the prison was positive, and what parts of the programs do we need to change?
Freda Ceasar : (23:14)
So a big part of that is survey work, right? So we're getting the feedback from real-time feedback from the participants in their experience in the systems, whether that be with their parole officer. And there was also a big win by this advocacy group that had to do with supervision fees. So I don't know, people know this, but when you get out of prison, you have to pay to be on supervision, , you have to pay to be on supervision, which is like so crazy to me. And I think at the time it was like when I got out it was 20 to $25 or something like that. And if you don't pay them, let's say you don't have a job, right? You don't have a job, you don't have a place to stay because you, you can't get one, right? So it's impossible for you to pay them. So what happens is if that racks up over time, guess what? It's gonna happen. You're gonna get a parole violation and you're gonna go back to jail. .
Freda Ceasar : (24:18)
So a lot of what they wanted to change about the system is not paying those fees, right? And for some people who can't afford it, you know, having those fees waived. And so that's just an example of how this group, um, has been propelled, you know, empowered to really challenge the system, change it, and really speak up for themselves. And I have to tell you, as a person who's been formally incarcerated, and to be able to sit at tables and to advocate on behalf of my people and my people, I'm shout, I'm shouting out the, the people who've been in prison is something just the out-of-body experience as well. Like, there's something so powerful about being in prison, coming out and saying, Hey, I want to change this, about that system. And people listening to you. And like, it's a really healing experience to be able to do something like that.
Freda Ceasar : (25:20)
And so I think for the participants, those are experiences that people are having and it's a full circle moment where people can sit back and put their lives back together and be the change that they want to see, right? It goes back to that, you know, not allowing the poison from the environment, you know, choke us out. But we're pushing forward to something more power powerful, more bigger than us. And so I think this work is truly important. I think that challenging the system is everybody's birthright. It is everybody's responsibility, whether you've been incarcerated or not. We need to be thinking and talking about these things. We need to be challenging the systems. And maybe that's, maybe reentry is not your, you ain't in the prison. It's not your thing. But wherever your, your passion is, whether that's for children or community or the elderly folks or mental health or whatever the case may be, everybody's gotta get activated.
Freda Ceasar : (26:22)
Everybody's gotta get involved in something. You know, you can do something, you can write a letter, you can make a call, you can do something. But I really want this podcast to really propel people to get involved. Whether it be in this matter or something that you're really, really, really passionate about. Get involved. 'cause everything makes a difference. I don't care what it is, passing out a meal. But we need to get back to being contributors to things other than ourselves. Um, we need to be concerned about our neighbors, our people that don't look like us or we don't know where they're coming from. We need to be learning about that. Get curious about those things. So anyway, I'll be here all day talking about this stuff, but , that's flip the script.
Ari O'Donovan: (27:12)
I
Freda Ceasar : (27:12)
Love it. It's an amazing program. It's my baby. And again, shout out to Billy and Field over there and
Ari O'Donovan: (27:20)
Uh, 100%, 100% agree with everything you said. People really just whatever it is that you have a passion for and you feel like could be improved, do something with that. Add some of your energy to that to make it happen. And if we get a collective on that, then really a lot can be done. And, and girl, I knew a lot about the criminal justice system and all its problems and how it really targets black people, all kinds of stuff. We could be here all day just on that subject, but I had no idea that you had to pay to be supervised. That is insane. That's crazy. And then when you're in prison, you barely make any money doing whatever job it is that you're doing in there. You might, I mean, the last thing I read, it was like somewhere less than a dollar. It may not be that anymore. It might be more than that now. But still it's not even $7 an hour. It's not even that. And then you get out and you're trying to find a job. Can't find a job, have to pay to be supervised. How you gonna pay something? You can't get a job to make any money for? Yeah.
Ari O'Donovan: (28:34)
What are we doing? What are we doing? And
Freda Ceasar : (28:37)
I'll say that, you know, now being on the other side, I will say for the state of Oregon, there are some really good people in our criminal justice system. Shout out to Amy, shout out to Larry. Shout out to Jason. You know, with department Corrections, C R C I, coffee Creek, there are some folks who are really trying to push, push the cultural transformation within the system. I know one of the things that they've done recently is, this may be controversial, but uh, we would be called inmates in prisons. , you know, that's what we were called. And now they're pushing for you, calling them by different names, right? So adult in custody, really, you know, recognizing a person's humanity. You know, you are in custody, you are an adult, but that is so much better than an inmate . They're pushing for getting services into the prison. Like, you know, pre-employment services like the local, the local work source, getting folks to come inside and getting people prepped for work on the outside. And, you know, don't get me wrong, there, there are definitely some really outstanding things that are happening there. And there's still so much work to do, but yeah, being paid to be on supervision is crazy. Definitely. Definitely.
Ari O'Donovan: (30:00)
It really is. and I, I definitely agree with you. I have a deep appreciation for the people that are working within this system and really wanna do some good, really see those problems and are not just going to ignore them. They say this is unacceptable. And what can I do on my own to help this be a better system? Yeah, I'm in the system. I work within the system. Let me make some change however I can. Okay? There are those people out there that work within the criminal justice system. There're corrections officers, there are judges, there could be anybody. There's lots of different titles. Lots. I deeply appreciate those people that will go against the grain and do something to make people's lives better.
Freda Ceasar : (30:45)
Facts.
Ari O'Donovan: (30:47)
And that titles, titles matter. Like to call people inmates after a while, especially if you're incarcerated. I can imagine for years you really start to internalize that, I would imagine mm-hmm. . And it's, it could make you feel like that's all you are and that's all you'll ever be. So I, I'm an inmate, I better just live up to the title of inmate. I'm not gonna try and do no better. Okay. Or change anything. 'cause that's what I am. Everybody calls me that. Mm-hmm. , that's the only thing I know. Mm-hmm.
Freda Ceasar : (31:15)
Ari O'Donovan: (31:17)
Titles really matter. And the exact opposite of that would be, you know, referring to someone by a title that they work for, that they work as and they've earned and, and that kind of thing.
Freda Ceasar : (31:29)
Yep.
Ari O'Donovan: (31:29)
They really feel that. Like you call somebody a nurse practitioner. Yep. Or you call somebody mom mm-hmm. , I mean, those have positive con connotations. My favorite title. . Yeah, . But you're absolute, that's the best one. The negative connotation of it, it really sticks with you. Yeah. And so I I just a little things, you, you think that that would be a too little of a thing. What would that matter? How is that going to improve somebody's life? We need to be making large systemic changes. Yeah. And it's like, yes, but that actually does matter. Yeah, that really does.
Freda Ceasar : (32:04)
It's, it's definitely macro mezo, you know, there's different levels, right? It's the systems change, it's the, you know, on the ground change. We all need to be working in these different levels to make some impact. And you know, kind of going back to that, you know, challenge to anyone who's hearing this, like, get involved wherever you can because it is needed. Whether you are working to inform language, working to inform systems, working to inform, you know, person to person, you know, meeting people and supporting them individually. Like everything matters. Um, I personally can't stress that enough that people really need to just get curious about what's happening around them, their neighbor, their friends, those types of things. So
Ari O'Donovan: (32:57)
Really I agree. It, it's so important. Are there any myths about the work that you do that you wanna dispel and you want people to know? Something different about,
Freda Ceasar : (33:10)
I would say myths that I would like to dispel where equity work is concerned is that, you know, the equity journey is a journey. Like, you don't just hire your chief equity officer or your VP of equity culture and talent or your, your diversity specialist and like, yay, that's it. That is not it. We're in an environment where, you know, standing up an equity committee in your organization or starting your affinity groups is kind of like this, uh, virtue signaling that kind of happens, right? We hired this person and like, here's our investment. But then when you go deeper into the organization, um, the receipts, they get few and far between, right? Those receipts, um, aren't showing up. You still have people not feeling like they belong in the workplace. So for me, I, I think the myth that we start these committees or you hire your specialist or your person, that that's, you know, that's it.
Freda Ceasar : (34:23)
You've done your work as a leader, as a organization. That's, that's not where it ends. So I think for me, I think we need to dispel the myth that this work doesn't require us to be uncomfortable. That, that it is not about challenging ourselves. It's not about challenging our bias or, um, you know, how we show up in this work, our commitment, that that's a myth and that we've got to dig deeper. We've got to ask really hard questions. We've got to, um, not tolerate that one employee that just says the things that we all know are really just outta line. And we just say, oh, that's just so and so. No, that's not just so-and-so, so-and-so is out of pocket and let's talk about it. And why are we not challenging so-and-so on this, these behaviors? Um, why are we not looking at our outcomes as a program to say, Hey, we're we're not serving, um, our bipo community. We're not hiring the people that look like the people that we serve. And so I think it's those kind of really hard questions that, um, needs to happen. And that the myth that we need to really dispel about this work is that we're not gonna be uncomfortable. Um, so it it requires us to, to dig deep and to have hard conversations and really challenge the status quo.
Ari O'Donovan: (36:04)
Mm-hmm. . That's so true. And there's like, one thing that bothers me is that there'll be big businesses and, you know, smaller little dogs too, organizations and businesses, but it's a big business problem for what I've seen. Greatest examples of that. We'll hire diversity specialists, equity and inclusion specialists. And then they, they get to point at that person and say, okay, we did that. That was the demand. We needed to hire someone to tackle these issues within our workplace. We hired that person. That's their job. It's nobody else's problem. Nobody else's job there. That's what we hired them to do. And it, it's a team effort. You need to work with that person, listen to that person, and follow what they're telling you is best. And it's gonna require some work on your end. Everybody. Yeah, everybody.
Freda Ceasar : (37:03)
Support and investment, you know, and shout out to all the equity practitioners that are out there doing this work and feeling alone and feeling like I'm trying to get through to my team. I'm trying to get them to see X you know, shout out to y'all because it's hard. Keep going and God bless you, . But there is such a weight that is put on those equity practitioners to really carry this work. And it is so unfair. It is so unfair to them. Because in order to move organizational cultural transformation, it requires everybody, literally everybody from your c e o to your frontline worker. It requires everybody to be invested in the cultural shift. Now the organization has to provide those investments and thank God they're hiring people like me. And to your point, when we get there, where are our resources? Do we have access to resources for training your entire workforce?
Freda Ceasar : (38:11)
Do we have access to resources to stand up the equity committee? Do we have commitment from your organizational leaders to really carry out the equity statement, the mission and values? You know, does your HR department, and I will say shout out to new narrative because they have embedded equity in the HR department, which is very, very, very new to a lot of spaces. And having equity embedded in HR means that HR is really setting that culture. You're not adding an equity as, as a one-off. It's centered in every single thing we do from recruitment to training, to, uh, you know, even if we have to let someone go, right? That is done with, with treating people with dignity and respect. Um, and to me, you've got to make those investments as a organization. You have to make those investments. Not only in hiring the person that's gonna lead the work, but everyone has to be invested in that. So that's my soapbox on that one. ,
Ari O'Donovan: (39:22)
I love that. Stay on that soapbox, . I wanna hear more, babe. You really do. You really do need that. And organizations and businesses, it has to, like you said, be embedded in everything that they do. It shouldn't be like, you know, icing on a cake where you could remove most of the icing and the cake is still there, but it's unchanged. It has to be like baked into the cake as part of an ingredient. It really, really does. And some people, when you hire a new d e i specialist or a similar position, they will view that person that's coming in as like, they are the grim reaper. 'cause they're here to change a bunch of stuff. They're here to make people uncomfortable. They're here to tell you that you can't say this and you can't do that. And it's like, we, that's not really the point.
Ari O'Donovan: (40:13)
Like it's, it's not that person is there to improve the workplace so that everyone can feel comfortable and wanted there. It doesn't have to be a painful experience. Let's, let's just work together and make it a good thing for everybody. You're immediately like that's what they deal with when they walk into an organization, especially if they don't have resources. No resources, not enough resources, not enough support. You've got a business or an organization that's looking at you like, this is your job, you do this. And it's like, no, people need assistance with being able to do the job.
Freda Ceasar : (40:52)
Yeah. And I think equity work gets a bad rap, like you said, where I call it the equity police. Like, to me, that's a hard myth. That's probably one of the myths too, that like this work is about being the equity police. That's a hard myth to break because, you know, of course racism exists, of course oppression and microaggressions. And I think the piece that gets missed in the equity space is that this is about learning and growing, right? This is not about policing people. This is about getting people to stretch what they think, how they think, what they thinking about, you know, our Native American brothers and sisters, our black, you know, brothers and sisters, people who are not able bodied, like it's so vast women, you know, even. And so this work is about learning and growing. It is not about policing anyone.
Freda Ceasar : (41:57)
And the way that I like to approach equity work is you have a booger on your nose approach, right? So like, if you are saying some racist stuff, like my approach is to tap you on the shoulder and be like, Hey, I don't know if you know this, you got a booger on your nose, , let me help you get it off. Right? So this is not about policing you, it's about helping, right? And, and, and us learning and growing. And if people are open to that, then we can have some dialogue. We can negotiate, you know, here. So this is not ever about policing people, but this is about learning and growing and getting curious and just trying to understand one another better,
Ari O'Donovan: (42:42)
Really. And I love that analogy. 'cause most of the time you don't even know you're doing it. You don't even know that you're doing it. But how can you know you're doing it? If someone that knows how to recognize that doesn't tell you what's going on.
Freda Ceasar : (42:55)
And sometimes there are people who are not interested, you know, in understanding that they have a bugger on their nose and that's their prerogative, right? And that can be, you know, an opportunity for them to make a decision. You know, am I, is this the right culture for me? Is this the right, do my values and my organization's values align? Right? And then we can have that conversation. But this is never about policing or throwing people away. My perspective is that anyone can learn and grow. I don't care who you are. You can learn and grow. Um, and I'm gonna love on you anyway. So you, you nobody can't stop that . You know, I'm gonna treat people with dignity and respect always.
Ari O'Donovan: (43:45)
And I know that you've said it with new narrative and I know you'll go into more with it. And I feel that same way about Boost Oregon. It's, it's nice to work for a place where people actually care about that. Do I spearhead all that work at my job? Yes, but I'm not the only one doing that work. Our medical director, Dr. Ryan Hassan, will be in meetings and he'll be showing me slides. He's made for presentations and, and we work together to create some presentations and he'll tell me some stuff I didn't even know. And I'm like, okay, teach, teach. I'm listening. My guy, let me know. . I appreciate that. I appreciate that. And the people that I work with are like that. They, they actually, all of them care about that. And it doesn't take much effort to just care. It really doesn't. And I'd love to know, in the past year you've started working with New Narrative. Can you talk to us about your guiding principles and how your work in the equity space is so crucial? We've touched on it a bit, but I'd love to hear some more.
Freda Ceasar : (44:57)
In the past year that I've worked for New Narrative, um, we have been, you know, working hard towards our, working hard in our equity journey. And the principles that we are using to kind of guide our work is just really centering our participant and employee voice. So as leaders in the mental health industry, we acknowledge the significant disparities that BIPO and L G B T Q I A to s plus individuals face within the mental health continuum. Underserved communities often encounter explicit and implicit bias while bipo individuals experience racism and injustice within the mental health system. So knowing these things, we really wanna center our participant in our employee voice. And so we're engaging our employees in developing our equity and action committee. We just rolled out our equity statement, which is live on our website. So if you are interested in learning more about our work, please go and visit us.
Freda Ceasar : (46:02)
There, I believe is probably one of the most powerful equity statements that I've ever read. I wanna just give shout out to all of our new narrative employees that participated in that. They single-handedly wrote this statement. I think it's really powerful in that it's really calling out the receipt part of this work that I've been talking about, I believe it's really about bringing the equity work to life. And so what that means for a new narrative is that we're challenging ourselves, we're challenging the status quo. We know that we're not perfect. We are a part of the system and we have to take accountability, responsibility, and use our power to advance racial equity for our employees and for our participants. So in the coming months, as I stated, we will be developing our standing up our equity and action committee. That committee is gonna be working in partnership with our executive team to create our equity and action plan.
Freda Ceasar : (47:09)
The plan itself is where all of the receipts, again, start to come to life because we will then be able to create initiatives and goals that our organization is gonna be responsible for working toward the equity and action team will meet with our executive team on a quarterly basis to ask the question, Hey, how are we advancing in recruiting? You know, let's say the initiative is recruiting employees that are reflective of the communities we serve. How are we reducing disparities in our outcomes? If that is a, an equity and action goal. You know, what are our data around, you know, employee experience? Are we seeing, you know, anti-harassment complaints? Are we seeing those decrease? And just really getting down to the nitty gritty around those receipts that we've been talking about that really shows okay, not, we have not only said through a statement that we prioritize these things, there is a data outcome, you know, that we can say, Hey, we said we was gonna do this and this is our receipt right here.
Freda Ceasar : (48:20)
This shows how we're progressing in this work. And so for new narrative, I'm really excited for them. We are very much in the beginning, the infancy, infancy stage of this work. I've been here only a year and kind of took the baton from there was a consultant that was working with our agency before and took the baton from that amazing consultant and just carried this work forward. And so I think over the next year or so, we will be able to report out with receipts on how we're doing. But I think the most important piece of this is making these investments as new narrative has done already hiring me, um, getting our equity statement off the ground, getting our board involved. Our board is also in our equity statement and creating that structure for accountability to really see this work through. So I'm really excited. I'm happy to be at New Narrative. Our c e o shout out to Julie Ibrahim is the most fantastic person you'd ever meet. A person who is full of integrity, who has a heart for this work, lets me do my job, leaves me alone , you know, she is really about this work, you know, and I just really appreciate that about her. She's a phenomenal woman and great mentor and I wanna be like her when I grow up. But yeah, that's her work.
Ari O'Donovan: (49:54)
I love that so much high praise and done a lot of research about new narrative and preparing for this episode. And I love what they do. I'm excited for the Equity and action committee and the plan that they're making and the future work that's to come. And everything that y'all are doing right now,
Freda Ceasar : (50:12)
I can't shout her out without, shout out our entire executive team, you know, team executive teams. I feel like they get a bad rap sometimes. 'cause the word executive and you just picture all these people who just take themselves way too serious. Chill. You gotta relax. But these people that I work with are, they have the heart of our, they have a heart for our employees. They have a heart for our participants. You know, there is no, no hidden agendas, you know, people just really wanting to get down in the trenches and do this work. There's high commitment, you know, high energy for this work, and there's prioritization of it equitably and consistently, you know, across the team. There is no, this is your work and I don't got nothing to do with that. And here's my corner. You know, there's a lot of high collaboration and you know, it starts from the top. You know, you can't change your culture if, if you don't have people at the top about it. I just wanna shout them out as well for championing this work and moving it partners.
Ari O'Donovan: (51:23)
So true. You, you really can't without the support of higher ups. And those people need to be willing to get their hands dirty and have empathy and love for what they do and the people they're serving. That's so important. And you'd be surprised how many businesses, organizations don't always have that. Don't miss
Freda Ceasar : (51:42)
Serious say
Ari O'Donovan: (51:42)
That. So true . So I'd like you to take a moment. You've done a lot of so much great conversation we've had today, but I want you to speak directly to the people listening. What does Oregon need to hear?
Freda Ceasar : (51:59)
Okay. So I think what Oregon needs to hear from new narrative from me, um, is that mental health is important. It's a big important issue. And mental health is something that we really need to be centering in our conversations. Oregon needs to center, you know, making our communities a more inclusive space for people who are living with mental health challenges. Especially, especially for folks who are coming from marginalized communities. Oregon needs more autonomy for our participants in their wellness journey. Oregon needs to center the person experience, right? Knowing that they are the experts in what they need and helping to provide them with the resources that they need to succeed. And then lastly, I would say Oregon needs to create en environment, really help support organizations like new narrative in creating an environment for staff to thrive doing this challenging work. There are many mental health practitioners, you know, frontline staff, nurses, directors, program managers who are burnt out.
Freda Ceasar : (53:16)
We are feeling the crunch. And as I talked about, you know, the systems that the reentry folks are encountering, these, you know, frontline workers are encountering barriers to the systems that they are working in, right? Helping people achieve mental health wellness and reaching their goals. The systems aren't built for the workers either, right? And so I think that Oregon needs to take a long, hard look at how do we build better systems? How do we build better resources? How do we get more funding? How do we pay these folks better? Nonprofits are not just overflowing with buckets of cash, and we want to pay our employees better, and we need our contracts to get revised in order to do that. We need more money. Money, we need more money to serve these folks and to pay our employees a livable wage. So I think Oregon needs to focus on those things. And I think we, we'd have way better outcomes. Way better receipts.
Ari O'Donovan: (54:22)
I agree. Everything , everything you just said, I cannot think of some better statements. I'm gonna say charges. Those are charges for Oregonians to do. That is the best way to end this episode. I, I'm a big fan of that whole concept of if it is worth doing, it is worth being paid for,
Freda Ceasar : (54:44)
Right?
Ari O'Donovan: (54:44)
And being paid well enough for you to make it in this world, but also thrive for Amen. I really, really do believe that. Good pay, good work, environment, support, resources, those are the ways that you can respect your employees at the highest level. I really do believe that.
Freda Ceasar : (55:03)
I know. Come
Ari O'Donovan: (55:05)
On. I really do. So everything, everything we go on talking about that for more times. Man. And it is not easy for nonprofits. No, it's not. Nonprofits out there and the employees that, that give their time and their love and their energy and, and all of that into their work. Yeah,
Freda Ceasar : (55:25)
They're blood, sweat, tears, you know, and they're going home to their little ones and their partners and they've gotta pour into them. Like, it's not an easy job. It's definitely not for the faint of heart. So shout out to all new narrative employees out there. We love y'all so much. . You can go to our website. The website is www.new narrative p dx, all one word.org to learn more about our equity journey and our services. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. And our handle there is new narrative P dx.
Ari O'Donovan: (56:01)
I love that. Find out, learn more. Everybody go there. Yeah. Learn more. Check out everything that she just said. All the links, all the places that we will put them in the description for this episode. Learn more about new narrative. They're out here doing some great work. I'm talking to somebody amazing who works there. So I don't ever have nobody on this show that ain't doing something amazing, so mm-hmm. , if you made it to my show, that means that you are an amazing person and you're doing outstanding work.
Freda Ceasar : (56:33)
I adore you. Thank you.
Ari O'Donovan: (56:34)
I adore you La Frida, thank you for being on this episode. It was such a great conversation. Oh, I love this one.
Freda Ceasar : (56:41)
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much. Thank you for the opportunity to highlight my work and highlight your narrative. It's to honor being here.
Ari O'Donovan: (56:49)
Thanks for listening to this episode. Okay. Bring the community info without the community. Appreciate you showing up. If you wanna reach out, hit us up on ig at boosting our voices, or at our website, boost oregon.org. Keep doing great things, keep uplifting one another and we'll do the same. See you next time.